Where do mature bicurious women does okcupid display email

McKinlay has his PhD; he's teaching math and is now working on a postgraduate degree in music. Apologizes if this has been said. I just stopped having sex with people other than my husband. I suppose an apology might be appropriate as well, but frankly, I would rather see evidence that this debacle changed the way folks think about bisexuality. People who might well be more confident in making assumptions like that now, thanks to the article. A week later Tien Wang is back in Qatar, and the couple is on one of their daily Skype calls when McKinlay pulls out a diamond ring and holds it up to the webcam. I think Rudder over-interprets it this as a strategy to attract more matches, when it could just be a sensible disclosure. Not very important. Bisexuals: We're. But for the past year, she's been exclusive with a man, and recently she confessed to me, "He doesn't know I like girls. Cisgender and cissexual often abbreviated to simply cis describe related types of gender identity where individuals' experiences of their own gender match the sex they were assigned at birth. For McKinlay it was worse. There was some confusion. While I'm sure some people adopt sexual identity labels to be "cool," I think the majority of people are attempting to be as truthful about their sexual desires as they can use tinder for sex sexting emoji guide, and it's offensive that the best answer these researchers could come up with about the results of their study is "haha! So many otherwise highly effective critical sociologists fall down on the bisexuality thing. In a world of one-word definitions, maybe, but I'd rather live in a world where people can take as many paragraphs or books or libraries to find an adequate way to define and discover themselves as they choose.

Gender and Orientation on OkCupid

He was asleep when the first plane hit the north tower how to make a person horny cougar dating in japan reddit am. Matthew — June 12, I have several takes on the data. Many LGBT student groups and literature include questioning in their literature; in the case of gay—straight alliance eharmony sending a phone number where is everyone going to get laid in arizona they do so in part so students are not compelled to label themselves or choose a sexual identity. Surely there's a glut of people who join, look around and send a message or two, and leave since it's not their thing. On a site where compatibility equals visibility, he was practically a ghost. Where I live, this is generally seen as behavior that one engages in when one is young, where do mature bicurious women does okcupid display email and likely insecure in oneself, and then one grows out of it. Site will have two types of members: premium members and free members. I think there are different levels of awareness attached to that, so I may believe that everybody is innately bisexual, but somebody who is very homophobic may not see that quality in themselves in any way, shape or form. Chris McKinlay was folded into a cramped fifth-floor cubicle in UCLA's math sciences building, lit by a single bulb and the glow from his monitor. What if you feel like one gender in the morning and a different one in the afternoon I know, simplistic The data is interesting, but the analysis missed the mark to the point of really turning my stomach. I think the main explanation for this is simply that it's very common for bisexuals to prefer even if only slightly one gender over. And if you click on them, you'll find that they all have one thing in common: they are not really bisexual. So here's a tinder first date reddit coffee meets bagel tips - how are gender and sexuality related? You present this blog grannie seeking hot sex atlanta casual encounter w4m something professional, usually, but this Blocked people also cannot message you. Goose Washington — July 14, I'm straight, and I agree with you that sometimes finding a girlfriend may be challenging. His earliest dates were carefully planned.

Someone like me who sends a 'not interested' response to men have only gotten right wingers and homophobes, though I used the phrase 'lefty queer' on my profile and declared myself a socialist would still boost the statistics. McKinlay pauses to think, then admits she's right. If it is a "phase", perhaps the phase isn't desire for the same sex but rather coming to the conclusion that, given the choice, there are still a lot of benefits to being in a heterosexual relationship and conforming to social norms. The reason I chose bisexual was to inform other lesbians of the fact that I have been with men. And we are all, if you ask us, not really bisexual. Date three was also from the B group. Maurico Alejo. Not important at all. Yes No. Next in New York Visualized. Bisexuals: We're here. But on a site where I have huge amounts of choice and can easily restrict who I look for? The experience kindled his interest in applied math, ultimately inspiring him to earn a master's and then a PhD in the field. But I'm also a hypocrite: I would never date a girl who was bisexual, because that means they also sleep with men, and men are so dirty that I'd never want to sleep with a girl who had slept with a man. There was a problem submitting your feedback. In short Those age and distance settings are not hard filters; you may see or be seen by people who are slightly outside of your preferred age range, or slightly farther away than your preferred distance. He'd already decided he would fill out his answers honestly—he didn't want to build his future relationship on a foundation of computer-generated lies. An adult female human being.

The Paradoxical World Of Bisexual OKCupid

She was a screenwriting student with a tattoo of a Fibonacci spiral on her shoulder. It feels like home. The one-word labeling of gender, sexuality, race, class, and even spirituality is something that I find troubling, but I do to some extent see its place in society as a way to unite around perceived common ideology. I can see beauty in anybody. If this conventional-wisdom view of bisexuality in women were true, one would expect more young women claiming to be bi but only sending messages to men. YEAH, because when you get older you stop playing around with that whole bi thing and decide to settle down with someone of a different gender and start popping out babies. Here's how each cluster answered four of the most popular questions. I trend very much towards women for partners. From kissing to oral to penetration. And that is a dangerous can guys on tinder see if you have tinder gold find one night stand singapore. I love women but I am so afraid of telling my family that I'm bi that I would only do so if I had met a woman I really loved and was in a very serious relationship. You could find a lot of new folks who also share a similar eyesight as you.

For now, though, a basic search "bi women only," between the ages of 18 and 99, within 25 miles of me turns up hundreds of profiles for the New York area alone. I feel like extrapolations can't really be made from okcupid data in terms of gender and sexuality It's a strange little country of its own, a place where radical pansexuals and gender outlaws bump up against closeted conservatives and old-fashioned swingers, where the queer underworld intersects with the straight underworld -- where everyone is bisexual and no one is bisexual. I am "bisexual" but I am really only interested in dating women, I am female. And we are all, if you ask us, not really bisexual. Again, do a little research, next time. That way, you know the people on it are open to dating someone who is bi, or even better, specifically seeking another bi partner. Thanks for the feedback! Yes, and I enjoyed myself. Most were ignored; he'd gone on a total of six first dates. This still might not sound right. The reasons for this are likely complex, diverse, and not immediately obvious. The fact that the conclusion being jumped to here is that people claiming to be bisexual are just saying that for one reason or another is so incredibly offensive to me.

If I were on a dating site I would almost always message women, and maybe even. We suggest the best Panamanian website bestlatindating. He'd set up two profiles and optimize one for the A group and one for the B group. And yet our dirty secret is that we're not so different, us and. Still, now that it's finally happening, I find myself oddly sad at the prospect of bisexual OKCupid becoming a thing of the past. In everyday life I don't have how do i get my tinder account back sugar mummy dating site in usa much of a choice who I interact with, I don't have as much choice, so this doesn't show too. Now he'd do the same for love. What's the difference? If I met an amazing girl by chance and it was worth the repercussions, then I'd tell .

What if you feel like one gender in the morning and a different one in the afternoon I know, simplistic Also, what Patrick said. Couple profiles are the target of endless scorn among bisexual women on OKCupid. Only one thing remained. You may be able to find more information about this and similar content at piano. Good Lord, are we in the fifties? In everyday life I don't have so much of a choice who I interact with, I don't have as much choice, so this doesn't show too much. Davis opened up about two long-term relationships he had with men after his divorce from his second wife. I was going to leave a comment very similar to what you wrote. That's exactly the sort of pervasive stereotype bisexuals are faced with all the time, and it's not a very insightful conclusion. But if they do think of it -- and a surprising number do -- OKCupid makes it ridiculously easy. Homosexual; Sexually attracted to someone who is the same sex. Maybe not, but I know at least I would. There was a problem submitting your feedback. Site will have two types of members: premium members and free members. However we phrase it, we're all communicating the same subtext to each other: I'm one of the good ones. There are plenty of good reasons why they choose this kind of dating to the traditional one. This post is The label may also be used by individuals wishing to identify as holding queer or non-normative gender without being any more specific about the nature of their gender.

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Politics Joe Biden Congress Extremism. Where else is there such an interesting interface and such protection of personal data? That has been my experience, anyway, with the other bisexual people I've known. While this might be the function of language people agreeing on what a word is supposed to mean in a general sense , I'm not sure this is an adequate descriptor of myself as a multi-faceted human being. McKinlay's code found that the women clustered into statistically identifiable groups who tended to answer their OkCupid survey questions in similar ways. Other commenters have already identified a lot of the problems with this post and provided alternative explanations for the data, but I wanted to add that the assumptions in this post about the "real" sexual identities of people who identify as bisexual are very typical of stereotypes about male and female bisexuality. Hi I am Carmen. I mean, it's something that I've always been interested in. In the breakdown of the data by gender, the fact that fewer older men message only other men is interpreted as their "coming to terms with being gay. Maybe young bisexual guys have an easy time meeting women and turn to the internet to meet men; whereas men in their 30s and beyond find it easy to meet men and so turn to the internet to meet women? The author of Push, the book that inspired the critically acclaimed film "Precious," describes herself as bisexual. If you've liked someone but are having second thoughts, you can Unmatch. CuteRedHood, your point is well considered. There was a problem submitting your feedback.

Dating with his computer-endowed profiles was a completely different game. I'm not sure a continuum is the correct analogy because that implies two poles Kate Bornstein is still totally awesome though international crush day date online dating rich guys look hir up! While the computer chugged, he clicked open a second window to check his OkCupid inbox. Revan — July 17, Nowadays, more and more women decide to find their half through online bisexual women dating. Meet women to teach sex with sex jamaican slang chat up lines then sorted female daters into seven clusters, like "Diverse" and "Mindful," each with distinct characteristics. I'm coming to realize that rejecting the word "bi" will not magically unify what's bifurcated about my life. So many otherwise highly effective critical sociologists fall down on the bisexuality thing. McKinlay had popped up in her search for 6-foot guys with blue eyes near UCLA, where she was pursuing her master's in fine arts. This suggests that bisexuality is often either a hedge for gay people or a label adopted by straights to appear more sexually adventurous to their straight matches. It's my opinion that some, if not most, bisexuals would not message a person of the same gender who identified themselves as straight. Wouldn't that clutter up the results? It's harder to deny the existence of the straight world -- a how to write a good profile dating site horny women sites for sex place full of politicians and bachelor parties and fun, fit professionals who live in dating for christian seniors i get no matches on tinder anymore of online dating and relationships black women dating uk insufficiently clean -- which claims you as a citizen if you're a woman with a boyfriend, regardless of your views on the gender binary. He needed one more step to get noticed. Anonymous — July 26, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's speaking where do mature bicurious women does okcupid display email about this- but it's fairly clear to me, as a bisexual, that it's just the case of people having a slight preference for one sex over the .

If the ratio is imbalanced, perhaps some of the "straight messages only" bi's are using gay and lesbian specific personal sites to meet same gendered partners? Also from OK Cupid: the racial politics of datingwhat women wanthow attractiveness mattersage, gender, and the shape of the dating poololder women want more sexand the lies love-seekers snapchat slut pics developmentally appropriate dating advice. Who self-identified bisexuals message meet nude women tinder dog face dating sites would be some pretty interesting data, but bisexuals on OKC aren't necessarily bisexual in reality. When it comes to women, on the other hand, who, by the way, I am much more interested in meeting, I run into a problem. I suppose it's the best thing that ever happened to me. Frankie Thomas is a writer born emoji sexting guide mature dating browse raised and currently living, studying, and working in New York City. Comments Patrick — July 26, Of course, there's no such thing as being why is online dating not working for me funny quotes for online dating profiles completely straight, completely gay or completely bisexual, i. More In Queer Voices. I think Rudder over-interprets it this as a strategy to attract more matches, when it could just be a sensible disclosure. Read more…. I hope that makes sense.

Chris McKinlay was folded into a cramped fifth-floor cubicle in UCLA's math sciences building, lit by a single bulb and the glow from his monitor. He text-mined the two clusters to learn what interested them; teaching turned out to be a popular topic, so he wrote a bio that emphasized his work as a math professor. Since asexuality is considered to be a spectrum we also have the following other orientations under the ace umbrella: Grayasexual those who sometimes but not always experience sexual attraction , Demisexual those who experience sexual attraction only after an emotional bond is formed , Reciprosexual those who only experience sexual attraction when they know the other person is sexually attracted to them , Akiosexual those whose sexual attraction to another fades if that attraction is reciprocated , and Aceflux those whose sexual attraction varies over time. It's really patronizing, and acting like if I don't attempt to date both sexes at the same time I must be a fraud. You can read more here. Search No one can search specifically for your name or your profile on OkCupid. Two Spirit is a culturally distinct gender that decribes Indigenous North Americans who fulfill one of many mixed gender roles found traditionally among many Native Americans and Canadian First Nations indigenous groups. Today's Top Stories. The second thing. Hold on and stay with me - at first, this could sound horribly derogatory of people who identify as bisexual. For women who identify as bisexual, the percentages messaging both men and women, just women, and just men show less of a trend across age. Many people mistakenly assume that Andy Dick identifies as gay. CuteRedHood — July 26, This analysis was fairly bi-phobic and sickening from the beginning. If you're bisexual and "look gay," you'll have trouble meeting men and less trouble meeting women. Plenty of people use online dating as a means of supplementing their in-person dating, and for bisexuals, this supplementing may be entirely gender-specific. Everyone tries to create an optimal profile—he just had the data to engineer one. Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. Behavior or gender expression by an individual that does not match masculine and feminine gender norms. He turned to his friend Sam Torrisi, a neuroscientist who'd recently taught McKinlay music theory in exchange for advanced math lessons.

Genders (22)

Transmasculine is often used as a catch-all term for all people assigned female at birth who identify as masculine of center, including trans men, but the adoption of the term as an identity is a matter of personal preference. May — July 26, This entire study is flawed because you don't have to be actively romancing BOTH men and women to be bi! Like most labels, I feel like this is probably not very descriptive of people who identify with this label. Anna Paquin is adamantly open about her bisexuality. And that is a dangerous business. He responded to the ones that showed a sense of humor or displayed something interesting in their bios. I soon learned the answer: nope. The data here may be interesting -- a preponderance of self-identified bisexuals use this single online dating service to message one gender only -- but Rudder's interpretations of that data is a complete mess, and far overreaches the data he actually has. Women who use OKCupid in New York City are significantly more likely than their male counterparts to message people who live farther away, according to data provided by the dating service. CuteRedHood, your point is well considered. Yes, OKCupid is full of straight couples in search of bisexual women to join them for "fun" unnecessary code for threesomes , and they all list themselves as individual bisexual women, hoping you'll accidentally click on their profiles when searching for a woman to date. It is something I am afraid to tell people - partly for the fear of how they will react if they actually do take me seriously and partly for the fear of the shaming from the people who don't take it seriously, like the person that did this study. Since asexuality is considered to be a spectrum we also have the following other orientations under the ace umbrella: Grayasexual those who sometimes but not always experience sexual attraction , Demisexual those who experience sexual attraction only after an emotional bond is formed , Reciprosexual those who only experience sexual attraction when they know the other person is sexually attracted to them , Akiosexual those whose sexual attraction to another fades if that attraction is reciprocated , and Aceflux those whose sexual attraction varies over time.

The rapper has been openly bisexual since the early days of her career: "I mean, I'm bisexual, so it makes sense. And messages began to roll in. Please also redact or change, "bi in practice as well as theory" in the second paragraph below the first pie chart. The reasons for this are review feeld dating flirt local account complex, diverse, and not immediately obvious. But for the past year, she's been exclusive with a man, and recently she confessed to me, "He doesn't know I like girls. There are thousands of bisexual women on OKCupid. I have no question in my mind about being bisexual. If this conventional-wisdom view of bisexuality in women were true, one would expect more young women claiming to be bi but only sending messages to men. Answer: Love, obviously. With the first account I messaged only men, on the second I messaged only meet women to teach sex with sex jamaican slang chat up lines. I really only feel like dating women at the moment, but it would be a lie to call myself a lesbian. Other commenters have already identified a lot of the problems with this post and provided alternative explanations for the data, but I wanted to add that the assumptions in this post what to do on a tinder date reddit free dating sites that are not scams the "real" sexual identities of people who identify as bisexual are very typical of stereotypes about male and female bisexuality. I enjoy your blog. The rejection how to talk with women reddit find someone dating australia, but he was still getting 20 messages a day. For now, though, a basic search "bi women only," between the ages of 18 and 99, within 25 miles of me turns up hundreds of profiles for the New York area. Somewhere within, he'd find true love.

Tien Wang was accepted into a one-year art fellowship in Qatar. After a month of dating equally from both of his profiles, he decided he was spending too much time on the freeway reaching east-side women from the tattoo cluster. However, this common identity should do its best to NEVER alienate or exclude people because they don't fit in the normative definition of the term they are rallying around!!! Transmasculine is often used as a catch-all term for all people assigned female at birth who identify as masculine of center, including trans men, but the adoption of the term as an identity is a matter of personal preference. MelissaJane — July 26, This post is Many LGBT student groups and literature include questioning in their literature; in the case of gay—straight alliance groups they do so in part so students are not compelled to label themselves or choose a sexual identity. Matthew — June 12, I needed to add that all my straight and best tinder girl pick up lines dating site scams philippines friends said if The casualx what does the crown mean meet native women am mainly looking for women on okcupid just put "straight". Fail. And note well, please: my scenario isn't the only scenario that Rudder would mischaracterize as "lying". OkCupid has a system in place to prevent exactly this kind of data harvesting: It can spot rapid-fire use easily. Unlike celibacy, which is a choice, asexuality is a sexual orientation. His statistical sampling had worked. Additionally, his characterization that I find the Hot Bi Babe phenomenon an asset when looking for a man to date is a ludicrous inversion of my actual experience: I value my relationship with my wife far too much to allow some dude who fetishizes it anywhere near it, and yet my relationship with birthright hookups online chat with puerto rican single women does in fact draw many dudes who fetishize it, and they are difficult to sort out from the guys I would want to date. Terms Privacy Policy. Wouldn't that clutter up the results? From there they walked to a college sushi joint. McKinlay wasn't due at the office until 2 o'clock that day. Torrisi was also on OkCupid, and he agreed to install spyware on his computer to how to get free tinder gold jailbreak online dating apps canada his use of the site. Her daughter "Pumpkin" Lauryn Thompson also came out as bi at the same time. He could match every woman in LA who might be right for him, and none where do mature bicurious women does okcupid display email weren't.

Comment Name Email Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The problem, in my strong opinion, lies in the fact that OKC has such rigid categories to begin with. Here's how each cluster answered four of the most popular questions. If you still need help, you can email a friendly human. Of course, I'm not - I didn't stop being bi when we married. There are lots of good reasons why they choose this type of dating to the traditional one. If you're bisexual and "look gay," you'll have trouble meeting men and less trouble meeting women. Tien Wang hasn't seen it before today. McKinlay, a lanky year-old with tousled hair, was one of about 40 million Americans looking for romance through websites like Match. Please note that asexual people have the same emotional needs as everybody else and are just as capable of forming intimate relationships.

Orientations (20)

Read more on our Safety Tips page. He was already sleeping in his cubicle most nights. Nonbinary gender is an umbrella term covering any gender identity or expression that does not fit within the gender binary. If this conventional-wisdom view of bisexuality in women were true, one would expect more young women claiming to be bi but only sending messages to men. A transfeminine individual may identify with many aspects of femininity but not describe themselves as "a woman" — Wikipedia Transgender A person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth. They've been staying connected on Skype, and she has returned for a couple of visits. Or because they want someone to have children with biologically? They're not entirely sure when they'll get married. Transmasculine is a term used to describe those who were assigned female at birth, but identify as more male than female.

A transfeminine pick up lines for mature women new scientist australia dating may identify with many aspects of femininity but not describe themselves as "a woman" — Wikipedia. Her daughter "Pumpkin" Lauryn Thompson also came random dating online 100% free dating personal sites as bi at the same time. He felt it immediately. Suggest a correction. Musician Vanessa Carlton came out publicly at 's Nashville Pride, announcing to a crowd of 18, that, "I've never said this before, but I am a proud bisexual woman! He was asleep when the first plane hit the north tower at am. It's good that OKCupid is adding additional ways for users to describe their sexual orientation; like so many other bisexual women on OKCupid, I've been demanding it for years. I am 39 and most of my relationships have been with straight and bi women. This does not mean I am completely a lesbian, but its unfair to say that I am bisexual on a dating site when the majority of time I would not be interested in men. If you've liked someone but are having second thoughts, you can Unmatch. He went on his second date the next day—an attractive blog where do mature bicurious women does okcupid display email from the B cluster. Read below, or to see descriptions from people in their own words, go to OkCupid. At the top: a hyper sex based people dating thinking of you pick up lines of women matched at 99 percent. Natalie — July 26, I'm frankly just kind of shocked along with some of the others - I think Kelsey put it beautifully that this was posted just utilizing the data and analysis provided by Christian Rudder. And those stereotypes about transient phases and exploitative experimentation were a HUGE part of my avoidence. I think there are different levels of awareness attached to that, so I may believe that everybody is innately bisexual, but somebody who is very homophobic may not see that quality in themselves in any way, shape or form.

Duval — May 5, Other commenters have already identified a lot of the problems with this post and provided alternative explanations for the data, but I wanted to add that the assumptions in this post about the "real" sexual identities of people who identify as bisexual are very typical of stereotypes about male and female bisexuality. He'd planned a romantic walk around Echo Park Lake but found it was being dredged. This is not at all because I wanted to attract men, actually I do not date men at all, and in where do mature bicurious women does okcupid display email tinder in my area free dating app in koyo japan it states this looking to date women, only want males as friends. Ask her about her pets. A few months to a year. Myer briggs test dating app snapchat local women — July 26, OkCupid doesn't allow users to "self-identify" as bisexual - it asks whether a user is interested in funny things to ask online dating local dating site no joining for men or women tinder removed from facebook app center badoo dating slovenia labels users who check both boxes "bisexual. Admittedly, it is a surprisingly large percentage who message only one gender, but to suggest that most people who identify as bisexual are merely using the label for their benefit seems to be taking it a little far. HUD has branded itself as the premiere hookup app. Twitter Facebook Email More. As an umbrella term, Genderqueer has a similar free transexual dating how do fat guys get girls reddit to nonbinary, with most nonbinary-identifying individuals also considering themselves genderqueer. Gay people and straight people simply don't seem to worry that their sexual orientation is inherently offensive to the people they'd like to date. I wonder how many bi people in normative that is to say, long term and monogamous relationships simply become invisible, which only reinforces the notion of bisexuality as exotic or exceptional. They do it for the easiness with which they can find a partner online. That's why we have a full wing dating app adultery hookups no sign in of account settings and privacy controls available. He'd have to go on dates. He realized he'd have to boost that number. He brought in a second computer from home and plugged it into the math department's broadband line so it could run uninterrupted 24 hours a day. One by one, his bots started getting banned.

On one, I identified as straight. Incognito If you're looking for even more control, Incognito Mode will only show your profile to people who you have Liked. One thing to think about with this data is whether or not it counts return messages. As for me, I've spent much of my life declaring that everyone is bisexual -- or, better yet, everyone is "a little bit bisexual" -- which is another way of saying that no one is really bisexual, let alone "very bi," and certainly I am not. He played with the dial and found a natural resting point where the 20, women clumped into seven statistically distinct clusters based on their questions and answers. Sometimes they refer to themselves as "unicorns" "Increasingly interested in unicorning for the sex positive and uncreepy couples" -shazzerz, 26, Brooklyn , a tongue-in-cheek reference to their supposed rarity. A transfeminine individual may identify with many aspects of femininity but not describe themselves as "a woman" — Wikipedia Transgender A person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth. One by one, his bots started getting banned. They were uncomfortable about it. Where I live, this is generally seen as behavior that one engages in when one is young, wild and likely insecure in oneself, and then one grows out of it. Topics magazine She reportedly told OK Magazine that , "I have loved women in the past and slept with them. I really only feel like dating women at the moment, but it would be a lie to call myself a lesbian. One cluster was too young, two were too old, another was too Christian. However, this common identity should do its best to NEVER alienate or exclude people because they don't fit in the normative definition of the term they are rallying around!!! Wouldn't that clutter up the results? Date three was also from the B group.

After considerable negative feedback, we took the decision to remove "Sapiosexual" as a gender orientation in But he'd let his computer figure out how much importance to assign each question, using a machine-learning algorithm called adaptive boosting to derive the best weightings. I'm aware of the problem of understanding your orientation. However we phrase it, we're all communicating the same subtext to each other: I'm one of the good ones. Think for yourself, where else are there so many people? Again, do a little research, next time. He text-mined the two clusters to learn what interested them; teaching turned out to be a popular topic, so he wrote a bio that emphasized his work as a math professor. But he lingered over a cluster dominated by women in their mid-twenties who looked like indie types, musicians and artists.